EVE Search - Maelstrom (Minny Tier3 BS)

All Channels

Ships and Modules

Maelstrom (Minny Tier3 BS)

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Valea Silpha Cereal Killerz Chimaera Pact	Posted - 2006.07.25 20:51:00 - [1] I gotta say it: The maelstrom lets me down in every way. I wanted a big stabber with a rack of AC's and caution being thrown to the wind. We have ended up with the bastard child of the raven and the cyclone. Theres no specific reason to use it with arty over the tempest, and assuming its as slow as it probably will be, its not worth using with AC over the tempest either. If it has 7 meds it will tank pretty well, but thats never been the minmatar strength. If it has 6 meds and 6 lows, then we get an ECM + resonable armor tank boat. Neither of that are anything like the minmatar i know and love. <Hammerhead> TomB is doing the nerfing <Hammerhead> I just stand behind him, look at his monitor and shake my head
Valea Silpha Cereal Killerz Chimaera Pact	Posted - 2006.07.25 21:00:00 - [2] Edited by: Valea Silpha on 25/07/2006 21:05:46 Man if we were getting the hyperions bonuses it would causes thousands of pairs of minmatar panties to moisten. Edit In responce to Sarmael: Minmatar to me are all about speed and terrible slot layouts. I haven't flown a cyclone in months because although it has a nice big shiled boost bonus its limited meds leave it open to all sorts of problems. Aside from anything else, without cap, you can't use the bonus. Slap on an MWD and you loose a shed load of cap to start with. Then add some hostile NOS on top of that. Thats NOS we can't use back, because loosing a slot to use it detracts from the already middling damage. <Hammerhead> TomB is doing the nerfing <Hammerhead> I just stand behind him, look at his monitor and shake my head
Valea Silpha Cereal Killerz Chimaera Pact	Posted - 2006.07.25 21:12:00 - [3] If it gets 8/7/4 then thats fine and dandy. But when did we ever get it that easy ? Plus if its slow, it breaks minni design philosophy. I pride myself on being not just faster than the opposition, but SO SO much faster than the opposition. My stabber is twice as fast on MWD than all those Rax's and mallers who are after my blood, and thats how it should be. Even my ruppie kicks it is a good couple hundred m/s faster than them. To me, the essence of minmatar is not being as tanky, not being as ganky but sure as hell being able to get away if it goes **** up. <Hammerhead> TomB is doing the nerfing <Hammerhead> I just stand behind him, look at his monitor and shake my head
Valea Silpha Cereal Killerz Chimaera Pact	Posted - 2006.07.25 21:15:00 - [4] Originally by: Sarmaul Originally by: kessah Sarmaul seriously how can u welcome a Shield boost bonus, matari are ment to be versatile especially at the Battleship lvl. Its so contricting, i fly the cyclone and i still armour tank it and i fly the raven and armour tank it, But like the cyclone u might aswell use a ferox imho and with the Maelstrom having a wasted bonus imho as if i used it i use it as a cyclone which sucks. Nobody is forcing you to shield tank it. TBH, I am absolutely loving the shield boost bonus but only if it gets 7 mids, otherwise it will end up being fitted like a tempest with another multispec. If it gets 7 meds , 4 lows and a shield boost bonus, what other option are we being left ? Enough meds for a load of structure reps maybe <Hammerhead> TomB is doing the nerfing <Hammerhead> I just stand behind him, look at his monitor and shake my head
Valea Silpha Cereal Killerz Chimaera Pact	Posted - 2006.07.25 21:53:00 - [5] Originally by: Dr Tetrahydrocannabinol im gonna be honest with you not sure why anyone would fly a Tempest over a Melstrom. Same DPS, better tanking, one more slot :\ It has marginally more DPS, assmuming you don't fit anything damage dealing in the tempests other highslots, or fit nos in any of the maelstroms. Oh and that they have the same size drone bay. The reason top of my agenda is 'speed'. Battleships are not noted for being fast. The blog specifically states that this one will be 'slow'. That does pretty much remove the option of AC's. On a practical level, you have to either move the ship into range of the enemy or stay out of the enemies range, depending on what your fighting. Being slow does cause problems with this. <Hammerhead> TomB is doing the nerfing <Hammerhead> I just stand behind him, look at his monitor and shake my head
Valea Silpha Cereal Killerz Chimaera Pact	Posted - 2006.07.25 23:23:00 - [6] The problem im seeing more than anything else (now im over it not being fast and autocannony) is that you can't kill a damn thing just by tanking it. And for that matter not being the best tank on the market. It all looks pretty good on paper, but its just not what we're about. It will run missions just fine. But i would never give up my tempy for one of these. I like that i can choose to armor or shield tank. I like that i can choose to be snipey or MWD of doom. I like that i get a double dose of damage bonus. Line the maeltrom up against the Rokh, for example. The rokh will out tank it, there is no denying it. The rokh will also have range beyond anything achieveable by anything else. Now lets compare it to the Hyperion. The hyperion is a nasty piece of work, essentially a faster blasterthron, which will smoke our new chappy. Next against the abaddon... which is a choice between uber tank or uber gank. Im damned if the bloody ammar have a more versatile ship than we do. <Hammerhead> TomB is doing the nerfing <Hammerhead> I just stand behind him, look at his monitor and shake my head
Valea Silpha Cereal Killerz Chimaera Pact	Posted - 2006.07.25 23:25:00 - [7] Originally by: Aramendel Originally by: Nafri you fit an active tank on a vagabound? And since when is a shieldtank automatically an active one? On the Maelstrom it will be, mind you, but so what? Cyclones work just splendidly with an active tank. I think 'splendidly' is a bit of a stretch. They work pretty well, if you happen to have a shed load of nos. <Hammerhead> TomB is doing the nerfing <Hammerhead> I just stand behind him, look at his monitor and shake my head
Valea Silpha Cereal Killerz Chimaera Pact	Posted - 2006.07.25 23:31:00 - [8] Originally by: Jim McGregor Originally by: Valea Silpha The problem im seeing more than anything else (now im over it not being fast and autocannony) is that you can't kill a damn thing just by tanking it. And for that matter not being the best tank on the market. It all looks pretty good on paper, but its just not what we're about. It will run missions just fine. But i would never give up my tempy for one of these. I like that i can choose to armor or shield tank. I like that i can choose to be snipey or MWD of doom. I like that i get a double dose of damage bonus. Line the maeltrom up against the Rokh, for example. The rokh will out tank it, there is no denying it. The rokh will also have range beyond anything achieveable by anything else. Now lets compare it to the Hyperion. The hyperion is a nasty piece of work, essentially a faster blasterthron, which will smoke our new chappy. Next against the abaddon... which is a choice between uber tank or uber gank. Im damned if the bloody ammar have a more versatile ship than we do. Not giving up the tempy was exacly what the devs tried to do here. They didnt want to replace current ships. And they havent. All the older ships are still better at some things. We will just have more choices now. This is like a choice between eating McDonalds and eating your own spleen. McDonalds isn't that fabulous, but compared to the alternative... Seriously... theres some arty potential MAYBE. It out damages the tempest by half a gun. However, if it has fewer lows and similar grid, it'll mean fewer gyros... <Hammerhead> TomB is doing the nerfing <Hammerhead> I just stand behind him, look at his monitor and shake my head
Valea Silpha Cereal Killerz Chimaera Pact	Posted - 2006.07.25 23:33:00 - [9] Originally by: Severa Crest Heres a quick thought. Give the pest another mid, 8 turret slots, and boost its stats up a bit and make it the tier 3. Then make a new tier 2, or promote the phoon and make a new tier 1. Something with some SPEED. By crickey i think this one has the idea <Hammerhead> TomB is doing the nerfing <Hammerhead> I just stand behind him, look at his monitor and shake my head
Valea Silpha Cereal Killerz Chimaera Pact	Posted - 2006.07.25 23:38:00 - [10] Originally by: Jim McGregor Originally by: Valea Silpha Seriously... theres some arty potential MAYBE. It out damages the tempest by half a gun. However, if it has fewer lows and similar grid, it'll mean fewer gyros... Im willing to bet it also out-tanks any other minmatar ship. Also the alpha strike damage with artillery will be very high i think. Some goonfleet member ran some numbers and came up with 3500 damage or something if i remember it correctly. Its really not that much higher than a tempest in alphastrike, and as i say if it has to mount less gyros to shoehorn the guns on (remember it needs to get eight of them on) then the differance goes down. And it'll outtank the rest of the minmatar for sure. Becuase we aren't a tanktastic race. We're the speedyones, remember ? <Hammerhead> TomB is doing the nerfing <Hammerhead> I just stand behind him, look at his monitor and shake my head
Valea Silpha Cereal Killerz Chimaera Pact	Posted - 2006.07.25 23:49:00 - [11] Originally by: Jim McGregor Originally by: Valea Silpha Its really not that much higher than a tempest in alphastrike, and as i say if it has to mount less gyros to shoehorn the guns on (remember it needs to get eight of them on) then the differance goes down. And it'll outtank the rest of the minmatar for sure. Becuase we aren't a tanktastic race. We're the speedyones, remember ? Well, personally i dont think a speed bonus on a slow battleship makes much of a difference. Minnie frigates/cruisers are great fun with their speed, but once we get to battleships, you cant really rely on speed to survive unless the speed bonus is massive. Try keeping a t2 blaster mega out of range and still within range of web disruptors. Cant be done. I can't really at the moment, and as the gallente get a new , faster, shinier blasterthron its even less likely it can be. Thats what i was hoping we'd get. A shiney, racing striped speed demon that can dictate range and compete against such things. <Hammerhead> TomB is doing the nerfing <Hammerhead> I just stand behind him, look at his monitor and shake my head
Valea Silpha Cereal Killerz Chimaera Pact	Posted - 2006.07.26 00:00:00 - [12] Originally by: Severa Crest Originally by: Nafri Originally by: Valea Silpha Originally by: Jim McGregor Originally by: Valea Silpha Its really not that much higher than a tempest in alphastrike, and as i say if it has to mount less gyros to shoehorn the guns on (remember it needs to get eight of them on) then the differance goes down. And it'll outtank the rest of the minmatar for sure. Becuase we aren't a tanktastic race. We're the speedyones, remember ? Well, personally i dont think a speed bonus on a slow battleship makes much of a difference. Minnie frigates/cruisers are great fun with their speed, but once we get to battleships, you cant really rely on speed to survive unless the speed bonus is massive. Try keeping a t2 blaster mega out of range and still within range of web disruptors. Cant be done. I can't really at the moment, and as the gallente get a new , faster, shinier blasterthron its even less likely it can be. Thats what i was hoping we'd get. A shiney, racing striped speed demon that can dictate range and compete against such things. I would have prefered an armor tanking missle boat or a double ROF DPS monster Indeed something different would be nice instead of just making bigger versions of the same ship. No no ... a big stabber would be good. A big belicose and a big cyclone are not. <Hammerhead> TomB is doing the nerfing <Hammerhead> I just stand behind him, look at his monitor and shake my head
Valea Silpha Cereal Killerz Chimaera Pact	Posted - 2006.07.26 00:28:00 - [13] Give this man a cookie. He has the right idea. <Hammerhead> TomB is doing the nerfing <Hammerhead> I just stand behind him, look at his monitor and shake my head
Valea Silpha Cereal Killerz Chimaera Pact	Posted - 2006.07.26 00:44:00 - [14] Originally by: Kael D'mende Originally by: Eximius Josari Originally by: Valea Silpha Originally by: Severa Crest Originally by: Nafri Originally by: Valea Silpha Originally by: Jim McGregor Originally by: Valea Silpha Its really not that much higher than a tempest in alphastrike, and as i say if it has to mount less gyros to shoehorn the guns on (remember it needs to get eight of them on) then the differance goes down. And it'll outtank the rest of the minmatar for sure. Becuase we aren't a tanktastic race. We're the speedyones, remember ? Well, personally i dont think a speed bonus on a slow battleship makes much of a difference. Minnie frigates/cruisers are great fun with their speed, but once we get to battleships, you cant really rely on speed to survive unless the speed bonus is massive. Try keeping a t2 blaster mega out of range and still within range of web disruptors. Cant be done. I can't really at the moment, and as the gallente get a new , faster, shinier blasterthron its even less likely it can be. Thats what i was hoping we'd get. A shiney, racing striped speed demon that can dictate range and compete against such things. I would have prefered an armor tanking missle boat or a double ROF DPS monster Indeed something different would be nice instead of just making bigger versions of the same ship. No no ... a big stabber would be good. A big belicose and a big cyclone are not. 8/6/6 with 10% Velocity bonus and 160 m/s base speed? thats a total of 200m/s with lvl5, not that usefull imo, unless its made of air so it responds fast, and get that much better increase from any speed mods.. but doubt it :O) 50% of 160 is 80. 80 + 160 = 240. Thats before skills... That means without adding snakes or navigation over 1km/s on MWD. With jsut skills taken into account, your looking at 1.5-1.8 km/s. That'll do nicely. <Hammerhead> TomB is doing the nerfing <Hammerhead> I just stand behind him, look at his monitor and shake my head
Valea Silpha Cereal Killerz Chimaera Pact	Posted - 2006.07.26 04:49:00 - [15] The problem is not with an uber shield tanking BS. The problem is not with the ewar potential. The problem is with having them on a minmatar ship. All we've been given here is a move away for minmatar as a racial philosophy in favor of and over-blown attempt at balance. The other races get a bs thats exactly what their races do. The caldari one gets an uber shield tank and snipey rails. The ammar one gets a big big armor tank. The ammar whiners say its not got enough cap, but sod them thats their problem. The ship has no other issues. The gallente gets a big phat blaster boat of pure sppedy pwn. What the hell do we get ? I sense it was a rejected design for a future caldari ship. Its not down to the cyclones bonuses being a bit rubbish. Its not down to it being unbalanced. Its down to the ship being totally out of character for the minmatar. What is the one thing we got going for us ? Speed. Now we took that our racial ewar is worthless to us. We accepted that our mortal enemies got the ewar that would effect us the least, but would be of worth to us most. Then we get given this. Its slow, its actively shield tanked, its damage isn't that good, it can't effectively use AC's and worst of all theres not a damn thing you can do to change it. Not enough lows to attempt an armor tank, and should you be foolhardy enough to give it a go you loose half your ship bonus in one go. Not a lot you can do to make it fast enough to work with AC's. It doesn't do that much more damage with arties over the tempest, and as i've said earlier, if you need grid mods to fit 8x 1400mm II , which is pretty likely, you will start having problems getting more than a 10% greater alpha strike than the tempest. Heres some numbers: Tempest has 6 guns plus a 25% damage bonus = 7.5 guns unmodified. Maelstrom has 8 guns base. Thats a differance of about 6.2% or if you like, the tempest does 15/16ths of the new things damaage on alphastrike. Adding gyros (assuming you get 26% from three stacked gyroIIs as eve-geek tells me) Tempests 7.5 guns become 9.45 guns Malestroms 8 guns become 10.08 guns Thats a damage differance on alphastrike of about 7%. If my math is borked its because its nearly 6am local time and i've not slept, but it looks right to me, so you never know eh ? I would plug in some damage mods and so forth, but frankly i can't be bothered at this point. <Hammerhead> TomB is doing the nerfing <Hammerhead> I just stand behind him, look at his monitor and shake my head
Valea Silpha Cereal Killerz Chimaera Pact	Posted - 2006.07.26 14:36:00 - [16] I dunno why people are worshipping this ship as a BS sized Sleipnir. The sleipnir starts with some awesome resists, is faster than the astarte and weighs less. The maelstrom will be very slow, have base resists and no room for nos. It will only be able to boost as long as its cap charges hold out, and that to me is a significant problem. Everything that needs to be said has been to be honest. We are supremely unlikely to get seven meds. Nothing personal against the devs, but they do have a habbit of giving the minnies a kick when they are down, and i think seven meds is a lil on the too good side. Its not significantly better than a tempest for fleet work, with the added bonus of wasting half its bonus as lag will pwn your tank for you. The only reason the cyclone (or at least my cyclone) works is because i have 3 med nos on it to run the bloody shield booster anyway. The new thing does not get that luxury. As you can't successfully strap autocannons to it, i submit to all and sundry its not a minmatar ship. <Hammerhead> TomB is doing the nerfing <Hammerhead> I just stand behind him, look at his monitor and shake my head
Valea Silpha Cereal Killerz Chimaera Pact	Posted - 2006.07.26 15:07:00 - [17] Originally by: Jim McGregor Originally by: Valea Silpha I dunno why people are worshipping this ship as a BS sized Sleipnir. The sleipnir starts with some awesome resists, is faster than the astarte and weighs less. The maelstrom will be very slow, have base resists and no room for nos. It will only be able to boost as long as its cap charges hold out, and that to me is a significant problem. Everything that needs to be said has been to be honest. We are supremely unlikely to get seven meds. Nothing personal against the devs, but they do have a habbit of giving the minnies a kick when they are down, and i think seven meds is a lil on the too good side. Its not significantly better than a tempest for fleet work, with the added bonus of wasting half its bonus as lag will pwn your tank for you. The only reason the cyclone (or at least my cyclone) works is because i have 3 med nos on it to run the bloody shield booster anyway. The new thing does not get that luxury. As you can't successfully strap autocannons to it, i submit to all and sundry its not a minmatar ship. Even with 8/6/6 it will pwn. I personally wont shield tank it though, but instead use ecm/eccm and fit a good armor tank on top of that. Possibly with a few nos... I dont see why its such a bad idea. Heavy nos are quite powerful, and the decrease in damage isnt so bad when you consider the enemy will have to use cap boosters to survive. And therein lies another problem. A minmatar nos/ecm/tank platform. Well whoop de doo. I thought CCP was trying to move away from them tbh... <Hammerhead> TomB is doing the nerfing <Hammerhead> I just stand behind him, look at his monitor and shake my head
Valea Silpha Cereal Killerz Chimaera Pact	Posted - 2006.07.26 18:23:00 - [18] Originally by: JaxxFunk You guys need to get girlfriends. You'd soon realise that this stuff really has no significance in life and there's much more to worry about in life than the fictional performance of spaceships in an online computer game. Rant over. That said, I wish the Maelstrom was a fast bs... I have a fiance That being said i would marry tux if he gave us a big stabber <Hammerhead> TomB is doing the nerfing <Hammerhead> I just stand behind him, look at his monitor and shake my head
Valea Silpha Cereal Killerz Chimaera Pact	Posted - 2006.07.26 18:24:00 - [19] Edited by: Valea Silpha on 26/07/2006 18:24:02 double post <Hammerhead> TomB is doing the nerfing <Hammerhead> I just stand behind him, look at his monitor and shake my head

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.